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Interview: Marcello Dantas, visual curator for OSESP

Athena Azevedo – Executive Director of IBOC – interviews Marcello Dantas – visual curator for the Amazon Concert by the Sao Paulo State Symphonic Orchestra, this October 15th at Carnegie hall, NYC.

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The São Paulo State Symphony Orchestra – OSESP will perform four concerts in the United States on its first international tour since the pandemic’s beginning.

On Oct. 14 and Oct. 15 at Carnegie Hall in New York.

This will be the first time a Brazilian orchestra has played as part of the official programming of this legendary classical music stage.

IBOC Interview: Marcello Dantas

Athena Azevedo – Hello! thank you, good morning, everybody, or good day, wherever you happen to be in the world.

I’m today interviewing Marcello Dantes – am I saying that correctly?

Marcello Dantas – Yes.

AA –  Marcello Dantas is a well-known curator and art director from Brazil. And it’s in regards to this wonderful curation of what visuals he’s doing for the Carnegie Hall concerts featuring OSESP, which is the Sao Paulo State Symphony Orchestra, which is coming to New York City, Carnegie Hall, on October 14th and 15th.

It is the first time Carnegie Hall has hosted a Brazilian Orchestra.

So we’re excited that they’re coming to our own City, and I wanted to take the time to interview Marcello and feature him with all of you so I’m just gonna do a little read of his bio, and then we’re going to dive into the interview.

We’re so honored that he’s here. So, Marcello is an award-winning interdisciplinary Creator, he has a widespread practice both in and outside of Brazil, he works at that border between art and Technology that’s expressed in exhibitions, museums multiple projects, and he provides immersive experiences through the senses, and perception.

He was the name behind the concept of several museums and cultural institutions, such as the Museum of Portuguese language, Japan House Sao Paulo, the Museum of Nature in Brazil, El Museo Del Caribe, and Museo Del Carnival in Colombia.

He’s curated major exhibitions in South America, including Iowa at Olga in Sao Paulo, the largest exhibition by Chinese artists ever.

He’s also worked with some great names, Lauri Anderson, Jenny Holtzer, Peter Greenway, Rebecca Horn, and Bill Viola.

It’s pretty exciting to have him coming to Carnegie Hall for this concert. I just also wanted to say from a Brazilian side, I have looked at it the Rock in Rio Pavilion, where he turned the Pavilion into a like stone age multi-disciplinary space with projection and sound that kind of took us from the rock age, the Stone Age of humanity, all the way to the tech age in five-ten minutes.

And so that’s incredible he does understand space technology immersion. I’m so curious about learning about this with you, Marcello, about your show, about this exhibition that you’re doing.

I invite you to open up so what people can expect when they come to the show.

MD – Yes, the concept behind it is actually to give people the point of view of Brazilian and biodiversity, how the animals’ insects and creatures that live around this place, not as see the space and see whatever we’ve done around it, so this is the idea it is to get into an alligator’s eyes, to get into snakes eyes to get it into a spider’s eyes to get into a dragonfly’s eyes, and see how they see. So all the music selected by Marin Alsop for this concert is nature inspired so it’s either inspired by the Amazon or by the Atlantica, the major biomes of Brazil.

So these composers skill class, they’re all looking at how this environment imprints somehow an emotion into music, and I felt okay what is lacking here it’s lacking that we are not alone, but only us occupying the space.

Brazil is a very gifted country in its Dimension and diversity, especially its diversity, and we cannot say that we are simply humans occupying that space.

We are just one of the other species that share this common land.

This happened. this, I mean, could be a bad value for anywhere in the world but what is interesting is that in the case of Brazil, the relationship between water, space, animals, and urban life, is very mingled and separated. Hence, at a point, we have a falcon rising up to the skies and flying, and then suddenly, he reveals the city behind him.

So, it’s how he sees that, so, or we get it, we get deep down on it, with an anaconda, in the middle of the river, and you realize that the very shape of the river is the shape of the snake, they’re both aligned in many ways so it is actually about revealing this other Vision, how we match these two, and it’s important because I think when we think of anything that is that has to do with an idea of sustainability, I think it has to do with a lot concerning the other distributions another thing can be sustainable for only one species.

A point of integration in which the first thing we should do is respect the life of the others that occupy the same space as us. So, the concert is about that. So it’s very emotional that you start after you realize that this is the story we’re talking about, then suddenly, you change your position.

You’re no longer in the position of I am a citizen in Carnegie Hall in privileged New York, and with a full Orchestra and all that, they didn’t realize, no wait a minute, we are in this other world, in which we are, they are the ones on that stage we make music for.

Then we get inspiration from them, so we create this moment of inversion in which now the protagonist is the spider, or the frog, or whatever.

Of the series of animals, we have chosen one animal per music. It’s a 70-minute long film, full length, a series of techniques on how to emulate the vision of the animals, so we used some types of drones that can fly as the birds fly, and we used underwater cameras that can swing as the snakes swing. We use special lenses that can change the color whenever there is fire, for instance, we use a special filter that would allow you to see how the heat of fire comes into the eyes of a butterfly for instance so how they how do you envision these things, which are different from our Spectrum the vision and then in Carnegie Hall we made something quite special which we’re going to do for the first time because we did the concerts in Sao Paulo about three weeks ago and then we will do but in Carnegie Hall we decided to do it mapped because of the nature of the space.

Projected into the whole Dome of the stage so it creates, like, as if the stage is the big eye, and people are. The nature of Carnegie Hall is that it’s relatively smaller than most Orchestra houses. Hence, it creates a more close-up feeling that you are in it. Marin built an amazing ensemble, with a chorus and orchestras like 167 people on stage it’s massive in with the change in the whole formation because there are some songs like, for instance, the ones only by Marco Antonio Guimaraes, which is an entire percussion. Hence, she had to be to build a whole percussion area much larger than what you normally have in an orchestra and this is particularly interesting music because it is not written as normal music it is written as a missing numbering system so that all drummings end up in a number 11.

So then you realize that you’re listening to something completely unconventional.

AA – I love what you’re talking about the sense of biomimicry, I guess you could say of nature to the environment of the snake to the river, and in the same way, what I hear you saying is that same way you’re making a statement say visually, let’s do the same thing, with the way we’re looking at nature, let’s go in, and see nature the way that nature sees it, and through this concert, given experience, where we’re somewhat projected into the eye of the animal, and into the sounds of the animal, and it’s like these composers and these artists, I would say it’s a different Consciousness that you’re bringing in the right, and yet they, when Villalobos did the work, the greatest, great work on the Amazon, and later on when other artists like Philip Glass took further inspiration from that it’s such a massive and mysterious and exotic place the Amazon, and it has so many myths and stories built around it that it dives into our, it’s a great Muse, as you could say right of these musicians, and these artists.

AA – I would say I’m curious too, like how did the music influence your choices?

Is there a particular Aria or movement where you were that effect you’re editing, or how did you approach the way the music affected the way you responded to the art?

MD – I mean, there are some points in which the music is very explicit, so there’s a, for instance, when music which is called, so we went into looking for a woodpecker, because that’s what picapau is so it’s how it’s it’s a very, it’s one of the most confusing moments of the because you realize the division of picapau which is like something that is always touching the screen.

So it’s very disturbing but we embraced it we said he wrote this song about that animal it was very direct, the name of the song, everything and the sounds of it, and it’s we talk about the Rhythm.

So we’ve responded to it using, as realistic as possible, the point of view of the Picapau to the audience then you realize it is early in the concert but you realize how much involvement you’re getting into getting to the head of the particular bird.

There’s another very powerful moment by Tonjo when he talks about the bottle, the bottles are the Dolphins, the pink dolphins of the Black River, in the Amazon.

 Well, these dolphins are very, very special creatures, and they, and we went into the wilds, and we found three of them playing around, and we play around in that amazing water of the Black River.

Black River, as opposed to the Amazon River, it’s an influence on the Amazon River. Still, it’s a river, and it has an almost reddish color, its parents but reddish, I mean, the Amazon River is very thick in sediment so you don’t see much, but the Black River, you do.

Then, we’re in the middle of this Trio of playful Dolphins.

The dolphin is a very, very intelligent picture with so many Legends, in the Indian stories, in the stories of the Amazon, it’s a very important interaction, so at that moment, we give ourselves the freedom to play with the dolphins.

Others are less obvious, relationships there are built based on the opportunities of how can we interpret that environment, for instance, when we talk about when we go with Philip Glass, we go with the alligator because the alligator has an amazing, how should you say, approach the water, in that swimming aspect, so this becomes very strong so each one is the difference it’s a different interpretation, and the idea was to give people a sense that it is a very busy place there is a lot of information and this is something I’ve been my relationship with the Amazon goes back about 25 years oh you have a beautiful daughter there your relationship.

My relationship with the Amazon began around 1997 when I started filming there, and we discovered many things about the Amazon.

The Amazon is so rich and complex that if you get your camera, loosen up the tripods, and let it go wherever it stops, you have a beautiful shot.

There’s an immense going here, there’s a spider doing something else there, there’s a bird over there, there’s a monkey on the top.

Wherever you look, life is blossoming, life is happening, and there are deserts that you may switch around and not see much, it’s quite the opposite, so you get a density of life in the interaction of life and then, also realizing that the Amazon is, I mean, the forest, I’m not going to say Amazon because all the forests of Brazil are similar in that sense, the forest is not a collection of trees.

The forest is an ecosystem. It is how these things connect, from The mycilian underground to the vines, that connect the trees to the birds to the monkeys, so you can discover a lot just by giving a chance for this life to be expressed, and that’s one of the reasons why I think that these ecosystems.

We are in a time where we have been kept so much away from that experience. Urban life has kept us very departed from the idea of being able to live with other creatures. We just put them away, put them away, and there is so much that we can learn, there’s so much that we have to observe, and also that we have to experiment, even to heal ourselves by connecting to the richness of what the or what these forests can give us. If you’ve been, it’s challenging.

AA – I had the opportunity to go to Manaus, it’s not the same as the thickest of the Amazon, right, and see the pink dolphins, and where the rivers meet, the dark and the white rivers, as you said, there’s nature everywhere, and it’s very strong, and we had a tour guide with us, of course, but I was curious about the danger of being out there and filming too, and you’re, you started talking about danger, so I want to know where your train of thought was, and then, how was it for the crews physically, be in that environment filming?

MD – Nowadays, the real challenge, the, I mean the real danger, is related to humans.

It is related to how empowered these people that are destroying the Amazon, willingly, and in either through drug trafficking, or gold mining, or cattle ranching of all sorts, and they’ve been truly violent to people, so I think the first challenge that you have is that whenever you go into any of these environments you don’t, you don’t know who will surprise you.

In the past, you could be talking about a disease, and you could be talking about animals, but honestly, I don’t see that as the real danger.

The real danger is the people engaged in this. I have to swim next to alligators, and honestly, they’re not eating you because they’re not hungry unless you threaten them.

They’re not coming to you because you’re too much hassle.

You’re right, yes, there’s so much other stuff to have, they have plenty of it all, and you’re not such a good meal.

AA – Yes, that speaks to something quite beautiful in that sense of when you can maintain an ecosystem of abundance like the force has been able to do the ecosystem of the Amazon, The Forest the everything, everyone’s needs are met, right, which is kind of economic model, in that way and that goes back to maybe these newer concepts of biomic mimicry that goes into the way we can apply, my hand’s dirty technology, and our, our systems of economy, or our systems of diplomacy, even with each other, that by looking towards the most healthy state of balance with everything then maybe we don’t need to have so much conflict, even within our own species,

 Perhaps what is what are, do you have any thoughts on that?

That’s going beyond the Arts, but I am curious about what you have.

MD – Yes, sure, but I mean: greed is an immense problem: People.

We have one amazing image that we have shots, this was not planned, it happened to take the place of entire music in the concerts, which is, we went flying through a field of full destruction of the Amazon, so what it looks like after you cut it down, burn it down, what that looks like.

On the continuous shots, it keeps on going. It meets the corn fields that it became so that’s the idea. I mean, the idea is we either put cattle or soy or corn or whatever you can in the same area where you’ve destroyed the abundance. Then you’re creating a very unbalanced situation in which also it will not sustain itself for very long because that soil,  in that climate, is not an exception, the reason why Brazil has this amount of life is that we have an immense amount of water.

 We have 40 percent of the world’s portable water, it’s completely disproportionate to the world, and why we have so much water because there are two occurrences: the Amazon forests producing an immense, immense amount of condensation, together with the oceans and then the Andes Mountains, limiting it spreads to the Pacific, so then it condensates down, and it comes down, in the, in the Triangular cone of Brazil, and South America, and then, it pretty much distributes a very dense amount of water to the country, which is lacking everywhere in the world, and the one, the only reason why we, why we have it, is because the condensation of that Forest produces.

What we called Flying Rivers, flying Rivers is a phenomenon of actually loads of clowds carrying a lot of water flying down to distribute that water itself, and destroying that system is destroying the whole life in the country, not in, not only you, know people think that when you no we’re just getting up a little bit of the forest there we’re putting some cattle and it’s not that because you’re unbalancing, because there’s a threshold in all of this, so as you go up, the the flying Rivers effect, and the effects of condensation, they occur because of a certain density, if you lower that density, they may not occur at all, and then that moisture will just remain, and will not fly away, so it needs to reach a certain height so that it can get the winds to go around, so I mean, um greed is capable of really, there’s not any price of meat that can pay for that destruction of the water distribution system, because this is what guarantees all the life of all other species including our own, and our biggest exports in Brazil is our water sources, what we can do with all of that water, this is what maintains, and also, I mean, the beauty of biodiversity is that you don’t realize so much knowledge there is in every Mushroom, in every insect, in every flower, means, I mean, there is just so much possibilities to heal medical problems of today, or challenge the possibilities and people, not researching their environment is a it’s a major loss, not for Brazilians, but for Humanity.

AA – It’s one of the few Forest environments that hasn’t been destroyed by Humanity, right? So far, I mean, apparently, Africa also had an enormous Forest, but because it’s an older Human Society, it’s turned mostly dry, arid, or desert.

MD – Well, because also they don’t have the same phenomena of condensation, they’ve lost that, they still have some forests, some very good forests, in Africa. Still, they don’t have condensation and rain distribution, and this is unique, if you look at the same region of the world, the same longitude and latitudes, in the world, you’ll find that most of these areas are deserts, except for the Amazon.

And there’s a lot and then indigenous people, for sure, I mean, the only person we have in the film, one human person, is an indigenous person walking through his path at the end of the film. So we get another point of view that we must include, and there are very harmful forms of colonization. Still, at the same time, I’m not making, we didn’t make a film or concert to say that I mean this is part of the message that everyone can make by opening the newspaper every day and finding out what’s in there.

We made a film for us to create empathy between us and other creatures, so when you see a huge spider taking up the whole stage of Carnegie Hall, it’s not for you to scream at the spider, it’s free to love that spider, and in that sense, we chose some very ugly animals, because we think they are very beautiful if we start looking at them the way we should. In VR, it’s a lot about how close we can get to them and how friendly they can become when we realize that we both need each other.

We need them more than they need us.

We need our respect, and we need them to be alive, there will be no world without the Bees, for instance, there will be no world without us realizing that these creatures are doing an immensely important job.

AA – I mean TV, you’ve been looking at environmental-related art for, not just this concert, but for quite a while, can you talk about some of the other curations and work you’ve done in this realm?

I know that you, I read an article in Forbes Magazine about a jungle Museum right next incredible article, and so you’ve been meditating on this.

MD – I mean, it’s, it’s a long process, it’s an internal process of transformation as well, and it’s a process of recognition of what these forces do either to yourself and also to your vision of the world, but I did the Museum of Nature a few years ago, we in the largest concentration of archaeological sites in the world, are UNESCO Heritage world heritage site, and in that museum, we tell the story of nature through its boss.

Nature has a boss, I must tell you, it’s called the climate, and climates change over thousands and thousands of years and have imprinted into many huge changes in many species that have disappeared and many environments that have completely changed in many Landscapes and in possibilities.

So we must learn that we have to learn how to cope with climate change because it is a certain thing, it’s not, it’s when you see it historically, we just have to be prepared, not to be the next ones to be extinguished.

When I started the museum, the spheric Museum project in Mexico, in the jungle, it’s a second Museum that I do in the middle of the Jungle, the Museum of Nature is also in the middle of the Jungle, and the Historic Museum is a different proposition, while the Museum of Nature is archaeological.

Anthropological Research into the past, the spheric museum is a proposition into the possibilities of Contemporary Arts to be created in a place where you cannot transport anything to where you have to be.

Big things are based on the materials available to you there, through the skills, and you have to create them in harmony with nature around you.

So, it’s not a white Cube. It’s not a rectangular place that artists have complete control of it.

It is just a place where you have to understand how well you live together with three in the middle of your work, with bees flying around, with spiders, with iguanas walking about the work.

Then, he realized that that is for me, in my opinion, one of the biggest challenges for an artist there because artists Demand a tremendous amount of neutrality to be able to imprint their ego message, and whenever you put something so strong as nature and then you sort of melt that idea that you can impose your vision.

You have to negotiate your vision, and it’s not with me, it’s not with, it is with the existing things.

I mean, are you going to cut down the tree to put your work on? really?

Are you going to make this environment unsuitable for life just make sure that your work is protected, what is more important, life or the Arts?

Human Habitat versus nature, and that relationship, the tension between the two of them, this we build a building to keep out the bugs, so they don’t eat our food, to keep out the Lions, right different Bears, because they’ll invade, so it’s our first adversary in some way, this both is what we need and what we compete against in terms of creating a barrier.

We have raccoons, for instance, that live around, and they feed on our exhibition, we have an exhibition now called Pharmacom, which is all about the plants of power of the Mayan culture, so the exhibition is fully made of edible stuff for Animals.

I mean, some of them psychedelics, some of them very profound, strong, others can melt, and everything and the raccoons come in.

From time to time, we have to replace an item in the exhibition because the coons came in and ate some of it. I think this is, in my opinion, a very strong learning experience, yes I mean, your Arts that is relevant to species other than yours, you make contacts that will produce effects you cannot control. No, you’re not locking the door at night you’re leaving it open because your customers come in time.

And you have, like, a constant video feed going so you can see and record what’s happening.

We have a video machine that records it.

They are very fast, but we got some footage, yes, we don’t have like every single angle, and we come around, sometimes they cross the room and right, and that’s, I mean, that’s the beauty, I mean, the Bruce Norman has an amazing work that has, that he lets a video through his studio for eight hours looking for the rats that are living in the studio, and at least, all you’re trying to do is to realize where we are, and this is the beauty about your relationship to Nature.

 It is not something so obvious don’t it’s not that often in life that you’re gonna face a lion, it’s very unlikely that this is going to happen, this thing happens in space and in time and within silences, so we’ve heard in the past like the sound of a Jaguar, but the sound of Jaguar occupies the whole Space.

You don’t need to go and face it. You might not even do that, it might not be a good idea, but the idea that you can occupy the same symbolic space, that you both sharing something, a bit of air, a bit of food, a bit of space, a bit of life, and the idea that these emotions that there is a bigger story other than just a human story, and when we realized that we’re both together, building another story which is not necessarily political, which is not necessary, just historical, on the sense of documents, but there is a sense of evolution, of change, of context, of alterations, that we do in the patterns, of life, just by being present, respecting, listening, and also there is something that I’ve learned over the years that, all the concern about making art Eternal, eternally tangible, is a capitalistic concern.

It is about you looking for a place to put your money that will last longer than the Money in the Bank, that’s the concern.

The importance of art is to touch people’s hearts today the moment is done so that it can produce an effect in real-time and in my opinion, we should pass through life as we should as a cloud passes through the sky, so leading all trades so the idea of these mountains of Heritage been accumulated in creating these gigantic, deposits of what are unattainable materials is something that seems to be very unsustainable in the way we should approach, I mean artists art is a project in a project of connecting the reality of its time to its peers at this moment if you can do that, and if you can live sure visual documentation we can live with, any form of other that it doesn’t depend on it becoming concrete or stone or metal or just things that will hold oil paintings that will hold the value over time but what if they can Roxanne.

If they can be eaten, they can be digested.

They can be what I call bio-agreeable more than a biodegradable, bio-agreeable diagram, which can produce a positive effect.

Effects in your time you can do that then we’re into a mission that it’s that may make sense for the time where we are in the world, in the 21st century where the amount of information, the amount I mean just the collections of things that we’re doing is has become so immense that I find to be more important today to make Recollections rather than Collections.

AA – And this is why I think storytelling and Opera are so important.

I feel very passionate about it with our project International Brazilian Opera Company (IBOC), is that we’re in a time where identity is so multiple in so many different touch points and times and moments that to have a space where we physically Gather in a ritual of Storytelling and invite different people together.

You get a chance, as you say, recollect, create an experience, a story where you can have an identity together for a moment and have an experience where you can see one another.

In this way, with nature, you’re talking about seeing nature and being with it.  

Which is so, I mean, I’m a big nature lover.

I grew up on my mother was a big organic Gardener, and we had compost and all of this, so I am on the vibration of everything you’re saying. And it’s just it is so critical to have those Recollections and that’s where technology and I think music too, are such, they are materials that sort of disappear. Although there’s a great cost to technology, right in terms of the energy created to create the information and to gather it, it has this ethereal quality that’s more in this the sense of the cloud, as you said, and what about the moment of being there, what do you think about the role of our Communications to one another to be present with, to get the message who sees it the value of like when you’re what is the factor of being in the forest at that particular time and turning the camera and seeing the monkey in the tree as it were in a city like New York, where it’s also very diverse in terms of culture and experiences, so how do we get that kind of comparison of recollection and experience is there any thoughts on the audience here?

MD – I think there is a sense of need for reconnection with something that will make your body a few parts of a certain plan.

New York is a place where there’s very little friction between nature and men in New York, although there’s a little bit.

There are some funny stories about it, but then, I think the importance is how much we owe today wherever we live in the world, no matter if it’s Paris, New York, London, or Tokyo.

I mean, there is a sense that we are missing something, we are missing inhaling some sports that do not exist where we are, we’re missing connecting with dimensions and scales that we do not get into the urban scale, we’re missing the possibility of being genetically informed by these other creatures that can share knowledge in ways of doing things that we are just not aware, and Opera concerts, all this, are very Urban ceremonies.

I did a few operas in my life. They are the most artificial form of representation that there is, more than anything else, because we are creating everything on a stage, and it’s a very human skill of putting it all together, all those elements, all these people aligned. Then suddenly, through one stick, it all becomes magic, and this is how we envision this, which can be nature, which can be anything.

Any creation creates environments. but what we have to think is that whatever it’s being invented to happen on stage has a source outside the source. exists in the world, and although we see a lot of representation all the time, there is something quite magical in the actual place that we don’t get the chance to visit so often that we don’t get a chance to observe with time.

There is something a friend of mine from the Netherlands says something interesting about the flights of birds.

For years and years, they always say that the way that birds fly does not produce any mathematical pattern it was random, and scientists used to observe the flight of birds for about five minutes to take that into consideration well, she took the same footage that they’ve observed before and she expanded those the time the observing time to a few hours and then she was able to drive a mathematical pattern of the Flight of the animals.

It is all about our ways of observing things, sometimes or even scientists don’t think of the time to observe things in the time when they happen we’re all sped up to such speeds that we are blurred all the time, and then we don’t see what we have to see. Hence, birds express certain mathematics, which is fascinating.

I never heard that was new for me, yes, so then when they make those flights that seem to be random, they are making a curve and a pattern that could be calculated and predicted in a way because it’s a language, there is a language there and when we Embrace those things we realize that what is lacking is our ability to look.

And to listen, to engage our senses to be part of the language of, to engage the senses that we don’t know that we have.

AA – And, I’m curious it sounds like you’re sort of being a diplomat for nature right now and I, and I when I looked back at your bio and I saw that you started it in diplomacy school, that was very fascinating to me because some of the most interesting artists I feel of today have either diplomacy or economic background and they, they’re able to see the application of the art in connection to humanity and our experiences and in your case the nature in a big way where do you see your arc of diplomacy manifest at this moment, may I ask?

MD – Very, very strongly. I think the reason why I went to diplomacy in the first place was that I never felt that I wanted to be a part of a single tribe, I always felt that I wanted to be Terran – I don’t know if that word exists in English.

AA – No, I don’t know what this means, please.

MD – So it’s like an Earth citizen, and, meaning that I was interested in all forms of life in expression in cultures and languages and possibilities that the world had to offer, not to be limited to the place where I was born and this was my first concern was that I know I don’t want to see the world only thrown a certain corner I want to see it from all its multiple Visions.

That’s why I worked in Japan with Japan house, and that’s why I worked in Spain, Colombia, Chile, Argentina, Mexico, and China, where I could play around with their culture. Hence, I made the Arts, the Constance Africa exhibition in Germany in Berlin, telling the story of Africa to the Germans.

And then the story, the mythological story, is symbolic of the park figures and all these elements, and I and I’m interested in stories but any stories from any source, and I’m interested in the difficulties in translating Concepts between languages I’m super interested in that.

That some Concepts, when they are translated, they get twisted, and then you realize where both languages can hide and reveal things by way of putting their myths and their Legends out, and I’m connected. Then by being the rakian, I am, above all, respecting all other life forms. Not only is human life critical, but human life doesn’t make any sense if there is no other life. So we must also be ambassadors for all these different creatures, so if I were a diplomatic today, I would probably be an ambassador level. I would be advocating for Brazil, my born country, and then I would be advocating for Bolsonaro, so I thank goodness I didn’t do it. There was a moment of wisdom because this would have been suicidal for me.

I can be a diplomat for the alligator.

I can be a diplomat for the Indian indigenous cultures and I can be a diplomat for Japan or Africa or any other place as long as we match our intentions, it’s funny because if we were in a war, that would be called mercenary the who hired for the purpose, hired for someone else’s purposes and instead of fighting for your nation and I’m glad to be then a mercenary to fight for the Alligators or fight for the spiders or fight for any one of them and I think the skills of diplomacy are very important because one of the skills of diplomacy is always to find a way to convene into an agreement no, a diplomat’s favor is an ability to reach an agreement, and I think there are possible compromises to make things, doable in some skill to improve, the lives of all people around the, so it’s not, it’s not about just creating conflict it’s about creating Harmony what we do with music and the images and the points of views in the orchestra they are present we are competing into an agreement saying God this is important.

This is important, we want people to be touched by it, and then they would go home I mean, whatever they want to do, they will Embrace that logic, that’s, we’re not alone and we should not defend only our own space right well.

AA – Marcello, thank you for your thoughtful time this morning. I want to encourage all the audience to get their tickets for October 14th and 15th.

 Marcello’s spectacle will be on the 15th at Carnegie Hall.

And thank you again, we’re so honored, if it will be a memorable evening, it will be quite memorable we’re excited about it.